Ed McMahon: A pulse, a passing grade, and a business card
Carnac the Magnificent: Name the three things required to become a real estate agent
Inspiration
Lots of talk these days about the brokerage of the future. The brokerage model is under intense scrutiny. This is a good thing.
In fact, I’m inspired by those who seek a better way.
Still, a dark cloud hovers.
One that continues to rain on their progress.
Grab an umbrella
Over a recent dinner discussion, my guest – a broker who oversees 1,500 agents – asked what I would do if I were to start a brokerage from scratch.
We had just ordered appetizers. By dessert, after answering dozens of questions, he got to his biggest concern: the agents. He wanted to know what kind of agent I would recruit, what their qualifications would be and how I would overcome the pervasive technological, social and professional illiteracy inside the agent family.
I suggested we have a liquid dessert.
Yelppos!
Seriously, I told him, I’d invite all tiers. From top producers to relative newcomers. All would be welcome to interview.
But there would be standards.
They can leave their black book at home. Like Zappos, my brokerage would have an internal culture born from my beliefs, standards and morals and grown by people who share in those beliefs.
And if an account executive at Yelp needs to have a college degree and at least a year in sales to sell web ads to restaurants, well, then I can require at least as much of people who will be selling shelter to families. I know, hard ass!
But there is more to it. I ask myself all the time how it is that despite the billions earned through the transaction of real estate, why so many in this industry dangle by a thread above the abyss of poverty? But I guess it’s pretty obvious why that is. Few own major market share. Everyone scrapes by. Agents spend inordinate amounts of time warding off knuckleheads and brokers provide little in the way of true leadership and value back to agents. Consumers can’t distinguish one brokerage from another… because almost all of them hire too many lame agents.
This is simply no way to run a business.
My agents must be different. Better. Smarter. If I can’t get them, I don’t do it.
Raising the bar
Consider the technology knowledge, communication skills, multitasking ability, social networking finesse, customer service mojo and killer salesmanship that define today’s best agents.
Consider the combustion of consumers energizing the online marketplace and the myriad of platforms through which to communicate with them.
Consider the new opportunities that are almost too fast and too furious to keep up with.
Consider the torrent of technologies that allow every broker to strip expenses off their P&L like layers of dust caked on a collectible.
My agents would be all over this stuff.
My guest asked me if I wasn’t being a tad unrealistic, if it was reasonable to expect such things
I sipped the last of drop of my Grand Marnier.
Then chose these words carefully.
“Why not” ?I said. “Shouldn’t we aim higher?”
Doesn’t the real estate customer deserve at least that?
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A mist of difference
I’d like the first real estate brokerage firm announcing that they’ll only be hiring agents with a bachelor’s degree and a moral compass to out themselves and tell the world.
Someone has to be first.
“Doesn’t the real estate customer deserve at least that?”
But, the consumer does choose! They choose agents that put no photos or grundy misrepresentative photos of their home for the world to see, they choose agents that don’t expose properties to potential buyers properly if at all, they choose agents that hinder showings, that don’t return calls and don’t see that there is a win-win at the end of a tunnel with space on the podium for all parties not just one party. The consumer chooses buyers agents that only work evenings because they have a day job…etc. etc.
There is no shortage of superb agents out there, but the consumers are not choosing them because they…? We’ll, I don’t know why. Maybe they don’t know where to look, how to choose or the industry is not doing a good enough job at educating consumers how to differentiate one from the other: the NAR says, pick a Realtor, as if any Realtor will do.
The bar should be raised, if not by the consumers and the NAR then by Brokerages, because the agents, except for those that do, won’t: they don’t need to, if the consumers keep hiring them.
There are plenty of agents out there with college degrees and a moral compass.
Where is the business model based on placing higher standards for the people who work for that firm?
If there is a company that has these standards already in place, I’d like to know more about that company.
College degree required
Higher ethical standards than NAR’s Code (which is actually quite good IMHO)
Jillayne wrote, “I’d like the first real estate brokerage firm announcing that they’ll only be hiring agents with a bachelor’s degree and a moral compass to out themselves and tell the world.”
A Bachelor’s degree isn’t a precursor to success. Most (but not all) of my agents have them. Heck I’ve got agents with engineering degrees, and Master’s degrees and they are fantastic agents, but it’s not the degree that makes them fantastic.
Moral compass, absolutely, but a degree? I don’t think so.
Microsoft was founded by two college dropouts. Ditto Dell computers. Richard Branson knows a thing or two about marketing, PR and running a business and he dropped out of high school. Walt Disney built a pretty good gig without a college degree, as did John D. Rockefeller Sr.
We vet our agents *very* carefully. We’ve turned down proven “top performers” because they don’t have the customer service attitude we require. We don’t hire just anyone with a license and a pulse and I’ll put my agents — those with and without degrees — up against *any* agent in the country.
One of the biggest problems in real estate today is brokers that don’t know how (or care to learn how) to interview and hire employees. GASP! Yes, employees. Yeah, agents are independent contractors but that’s not an excuse for poor hiring.
Once (if) brokers get past the “hire anyone and hope something sticks” mentality, the bar will be raised. But hey, if you can stick it to agents for desk fees, ridiculous splits and grossly overpriced E&O, while offering them little-to-nothing in return, who cares if they sell anything?
Hi Jay,
All the people cited above are outliers and are at one side of the bell curve.
The majority of agents are not outliers.
I’d love to see a business model based on only hiring ppl with a college degree and the company having a higher ethical code than NAR’s Code.
In order to become a loan originator, the SAFE Act (a federal law) says LOs don’t even have to have a high school diploma.
That.Should.Change.
Not to send the conversation on a different topic bc we are talking about licensed agents.
The bar could be raised for agents.
But I don’t think it will come from those inside the industry. As you mention, there is too much at stake from keeping things status quo.
Someone from outside the industry can and will do this. I’m waiting to see who it is so I can watch the company grow and even invest money in that company if they go public.
Good thing I own a real estate company or I’d never get to sell if brokerages raised the bar to require a degree!! Like Jay said above, it’s all about the agent. Do they have what it takes to push themselves to be better? Do they have the capacity to learn? Do they listen? Those are the places I would start when interviewing an agent.
Now, would I be a better agent/broker with a degree? No. A degree would have taken 4 years of real estate experience from me. Hell, if I had a degree, I probably never would have pursued real estate, but that’s an entirely different story.
Anyway, I definitely get and agree with the point of the post, and that’s to push for higher standards in our industry which are desperately needed. But again, like Jay said, until brokers get with the program across the board, it’s gonna take a while.
Jillayne –
As someone who didn’t get their Bachelor’s until they were 38 years old, I certainly know, understand, and respect what it takes to get a college degree.
But it’s nothing remotely near an indicator of success.
I worked as an engineering technician in semiconductor manufacturing for many years (before I got me degree) and trained countless degreed engineers. Some with PhD’s from very prestigious universities. Some were brilliant, some were worthless. Many had zero social skills.
In Arizona, you don’t need a high school diploma to get a real estate sales (or brokers) license. And that is ridiculous. You’re right, that should change.
But I don’t see where requiring a college degree for an agent does any good. Would it “raise the bar”? I guess, in some people’s mind. But that is an artificial raising of the bar. I think I am raising the bar within my brokerage, but I don’t require a college degree in my agents.
You’ve said twice now that you’d love to see a business model based on only hiring people with a college degree. Why? What would that model have over my model of only hiring carefully vetted, experienced agents who share a common philosophy on providing superior customer service? What would my brokerage, my agents, and more importantly our clients gain if I required my agents to have a college degree?
@Jillayne
I think it’s the broker’s responsibility to find and correctly train their agents. If we want better agents, we need better brokers with higher standards.
On the degree note, do you say “no” to a rock star agent with 10 years experience that happens to be a great person simply because they don’t have a degree? What if person B is exactly the same and has a degree but it’s in a totally unrelated field? How do you justify hiring person B over person A just because they sat in school for an extra 2-4 years?
Brokers can have high standards without requiring a degree. Maybe I’m biased because I never graduated college, but how does a degree translate into a better agent?
Don’t get me wrong, if an agent shows up at the office and say “I have a Degree in Marketing”, it would definitely perk my interest, but in the grand scheme of things, a degree means nothing to me. Experience in any particular field is far more important than a degree.
Marc another home run, great piece. You end with
“Why not” ?I said. “Shouldn’t we aim higher?”
Reminds me of one of my favorite themes I like to live by, Aim for the top, there is more room there
Thanks for sharing and keep them coming
@Jillayne, there are plenty of degree holders who’d be unable to find their way out of a paper bag. I’ve worked with plenty of folks who fit that description. Having gone to college and graduated means very little with regard to one’s ability to do a job well; it is by no means a measure of one’s intelligence.
There is much talk of “raising the bar” these days. Many in the industry speak of having a set of standards for even being able to become an agent. Don’t we have that already? Each state has laws regarding its real estate practitioners. Every real estate professional must take courses, study, and pass myriad examinations in order to become licensed.
When it comes to raising the proverbial bar, it seems to me that it ought to fall to the broker to not just hire seasoned, skilled professionals with proven track records, but also to hire those new to the industry and train them well. To teach them how to do their jobs skillfully and ethically. Taking it a step further, each agent has the ability to raise his or her own standards and do his job better. Each agent is in control of how he conducts his business, of the new technologies he adopts, of the sort of customer service he provides.
It seems to me that people should stop concerning themselves so much with what OTHER agents are doing and focus on improving what THEY can do. It’s the only thing over which they have any control.
Interesting subject, Marc. There are many ideas here.
I think many agents feel isolated in their career. They feel that they are alone and unsupported. I think that this is because most brokers choose not to support their agents and promote “esprit de corps” in their brokerage. My broker is a very nice guy, but I go months without ever speaking to him. Suits me just fine, I am used to being the lone wolf. Not everyone can thrive in that environment.
Your comment “my brokerage would have an internal culture born from my beliefs, standards and morals and grown by people who share in those beliefs.” is refreshing indeed. Now we just need to find more brokers that have that ambition.
Most real estate people I know are really great people. I think they are dedicated to their clientele and as committed to the pursuit of happiness as anyone. The problem is most are bad business people. They would probably be great and productive employees, executing a strategy, suiting up and showing up every day. It is too bad that many just wake up every day and repeat the same old tired things that don’t work (did they ever work?) and have no vision of how their business could be different. The reason you see so many solitaire screens on the PC screens in the office is they don’t know what else they should be doing.
It’s not their fault, not everyone is a visionary. Yet, they have chosen a career that requires many skills: CEO, COO, CFO, CIO… Oh, and let’s not forget to list and sell real estate.
Does the internal culture you speak of provide the management support to fill in the blanks of the independent contractors who don’t have all the equipment? Or will you only hire CEOs?
College degrees are fine. I have one. Mine is in Mathematics. Like Jay, I got mine on the 11 year plan. I would like to point out that a college degree indicates that you may have some worldly life experiences that a non-college grad may not have. Mathematics hasn’t helped my sell more real estate. Bernie Madoff, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling, Rod Blagojovich, et al. all possess those worldly life experiences too.
There are many very successful real estate professionals who are working with a GED, much less a college degree. Of course, employers set their own bar for entry and I don’t judge them for that, but my bar would focus more on other qualities than a college education.
Your idea is great. That would be my fantasy of a really GREAT brokerage. Let me know when you start, I’ll send my resume.
Once again, this topic.
I repeat my earlier question, in slightly different form:
Is a college degree and a moral compass a competitive advantage in real estate brokerage?
The answer determines all.
-rsh
Jillayne –
I submit our brokerage for your consideration:
Higher Standards
Our agents…
* Have a minimum of three years, full-time experience as a Realtor
* Work full-time as a Realtor
* Have earned their Broker’s License
* Are actively involved in the local Realtor Association
* Absolutely, positively do not practice dual agency
http://www.nestrealtygroup.com/about/agents.html
So many great comments here following one of the conversations I’m most fascinated by in our industry today. The complexity is real – consumer choice, brokerage hiring practices, NAR message, and branding that has been entirely lost on the consumer who no longer sees any real point of difference.
One of the great travesties of our market place are the large number of brokers that have 20% of their agent staff (or less) actually doing any business, and yet they continue to hang onto the rest of those agents in the hope that maybe THIS will be the year they do a deal. As a matter of fact, they continue to recruit more of the same. In the meantime, as Jay points out, they’ll be happy to collect those desk fees, E & O etc.
But what about the day that agent actually does that 1 transaction? The impact of a lack of real market knowledge and experience can’t be underestimated. And in my mind, the broker is culpable.
A degree, NAR certifications, and the like, are meaningless benchmarks. As Melissa so eloquently puts it, “there are plenty of degree holders who’d be unable to find their way out of a paper bag.”
When the brokerage creates REAL standards, provides REAL support, and is willing to eliminate those that don’t fulfill the brand promise, it will be less likely that a consumer will hire their cousin who hasn’t sold a home since 2006.
But – I don’t see any big change happening anytime soon. Good luck finding the big brokerage letting go of 80% of their agent pool. How would they pay their bills?
@ Jim,
Funny you should comment as Nest, along with M Realty and others served as the muse for this post.
Before we all get trigger happy and execute graduates be mindful that for my fantasy brokerage I cite a degree as A qualification not THE qualification to join. I’m open to all sorts and would weigh heavy other skills and talents of course.
@Artur. Just because the consumer is free to chose and often chooses poorly, that doesn’t exclude the industry from trying to raise standards and provide them better choices. I would argue that even the best agents often fail in presenting their value proposition in a manner that differentiates them from the fray. But more importantly, for every cousin Bob who barely completed 6th grade that gets a license to sell real estate, there are dozens of people who know Bob who view that as part and parcel of what this industry is all about. Multiply Bob by the many Bob’s in real estate and you end up with a a world full of consumers who think real estate is filled with the Bobs they know. They often can’t discern between who is good and who might not be.
@Joe. I know there are many successful agents with GED’s but more important to me than personal success for my fantasy brokerage is sourcing agents who have a deeper understanding of teamwork, culture, technology, business accumen, savvy marketing and advertising skills, the ability to conform to standards, use of logo, brand colors, etc., and the uncanny ability to adapt to changes in systems without having to invest in huge training costs to teach my people how to use things the rest of worlds seamlessly adapts to with ease.
@Rob. Hope I haven’t distracted you too much from writing another riveting piece on RPR.
Rob asks, “Is a college degree and a moral compass a competitive advantage in real estate brokerage?”
My answer is yes.
Realtors and agents believe they are professionals. Okay, let’s try that out.
Here’s a sentence:
A __________ does not need a bachelor’s degree to be a successful ___________.
Fill in the blanks with some of the traditional professions we’re familiar with: Doctor, lawyer, accountant/CPA, nurse practitioner, paralegal, engineer. Hmmm.
Now try again with some of positions that do not require a college degree: retail salesman, barista, fast food worker, entry level customer service worker, laborer, sales clerk at any store, and so forth.
Realtors and agents want the general public (ppl who are not yet your customers) to view them as holding professional status.
I ask readers to please not take any of this personally. I’m not specifically calling anyone out as being unprofessional. Surely anyone can do his/her job in a professional manner. That’s using the word professional as an adjective. Realtors and agents want the general public to place them in a category alongside the classic professions, using the word professional as a noun.
Go ahead and make all the lawyer jokes you want to. The truth is, they ruthlessly police their Standards of Professional Practice and members without a moral compass are not allowed to practice law (though I’m sure that’s highly debatable. Rent the new release “Law Abiding Citizen” and tell your spouse it’s “research.”)
The turnover ratio in real estate is horrifying. Every year agents come and go from the industry. Grandfathering in current licensees is a given.
Along with that, the quality of real estate education and instructors should also be higher but that’s a different blog post for a different day.
A college degree would not be the only barrier to entry. It would be a starting point and the industry would add along with it the important qualities you all listed above.
No distraction at all Marc
But as I’ve said before, if having high-quality agents is a competitive advantage, then brokers who have that will dominate those who do not. If it is not a competitive advantage, then it won’t matter.
It’s all in the hands of the consumer, and they vote with their wallet.
-rsh
Jim,
Even Match.com offers date-seekers the ability to see a potential date’s highest level of education.
I feel like your site is asking me to date my Realtor. In a way, I actually like what you’re doing with the ‘about your agent’ pages. I see only two agents that don’t list a college degree.
http://www.nestrealtygroup.com/about/agents.html
I don’t see membership in NAR or a company code of ethics. But maybe its there but I’m missing it.
Also, the Jim Duncan in the avatar here doesn’t match the Jim Duncan pic on the website. A common problem with match.com as well.
Rob, “if having high-quality agents”
All brokers want this and yes, this is a competitive advantage. Those words mean different things to different people.
Currently “high quality” can come without a college degree and a moral compass, depending on who is speaking.
High quality means different things to a broker, an agent, a buyer, and a seller.
This is why when the change happens, it will come from a group of outsiders, not those inside the industry. Outsiders who take the time to do deep research with unhappy buyers and sellers.
Very interesting topic. I dropped out of community college with a less than stellar GPA. and I did it to play more golf and drink beer with my pub friends not to start Microsoft. So my opinion is very biased.
As a broker with M and Employer with HQ, I have started looking at the process of bringing agents into M as if we were hiring them as employees. It forces us to look closer at the individuals skill set and fit within our culture. We have learned a ton over the years hiring people for the software company. Every time we brought someone on and thought “well they are qualified…I think they could work out” it was a failure. Every time we looked a someone and thought “OMG we are so lucky to find this person we must hire them” its worked out great.
Degrees and credentials do give some insight into some ones work ethic and reliability but to me are secondary concerns.
I view our occupation as a very hands on deal. Real experience is needed to really understand the inventory, councel clients, navigate home inspections and repaire negociations, etc. There is a wisdom gained from being involved in lots of transactions through changing market conditions.
The biggest gains for our industry could come from good knowledge transfer from wise agents to less the experienced. An apprenticeship program could expose newer agents to 50 transactions over the first year(s) under the guidance of a great agent. I think “professionalism” would take care of itself.
I don’t have the answer to this…we are starting with the initial “Hire” and working on creating the environment to facilitate knowledge transfer.
Rob,
a competitive advantage is important, however when looking at the narrative trajectory of any profession, there’s a point in time when that moral compass comes into play.
Professions raise the educational standards not only out of self interest but because as a group, they also believe it is in the best interest of their clients (or patients.)
I agree that we need to raise the bar and have written about it myself more than once. However it is really up to the agent. You see real estate companies don’t hire agents, we are independent contractors. Real estate companies don’t sell real estate either so the brand of the brokerage doesn’t help the consumer. Buyers don’t care what color the sign is in front of the house. Brokerages exist to recruit. market share by a brokerage is gained by having the most agents, not by having the best agents. Most brokerages would rather recruit than train or help and for an obvious business reasons. It is less expensive and there are always those who are willing to try their hand at selling real estate. it doesn’t make sense for a brokerage to train independent contractors either.
Oh and there is no economic incentive to be professional.
Hi Teresa,
The vast majority of people who hold professional status earn far more than folks who do not hold professional status.
Doc, lawyer, CPA, engineer, nurse practitioner, paralegal…..v…retail salesman, barista, etc.
The economic incentive exists.
Jillayne – very true.
Interesting all the support for lack of education.
Or the perception that there is no motivation to be professional in real estate.
Who would have thought that.
Be that as it may, education certainly comes from all places, not just a University. So from my standpoint, a university degree does not make any one person smarter than another. But it does however, create a distinction that does matter to me for my fantasy brokerage
If I had to describe the average rank and file, non graduate agent, there are numerous terms and adjectives that would fall into place. Arguably, these terms serve them positively but can often be a huge issue for a broker who is trying to cut costs, innovate, build their brand, enforce standards, switch technologies etc. This isn’t true of all agents. But some.
The traits and qualities of these agent often lead to their own personal success. But they are, as we witness, not always so perfect for a brokerage.
Conversely, the rank and file, average, graduate tends towards lesser entrepreneurial instincts. They are focused on getting jobs, salaries, benefits. Bonuses. Had they taken business and marketing classes they most likely have a heightened sense of these arts along with an mental inventory companies who succeeded as a result. They tend to be more open to suggestion and aware of the things expected in the work place by a company centerend of building culture and brand.
Depending on their schooling, they might possess less anxiety towards ongoing and continued education.
Based on the question asked of me, if I were a broker what kind of agents would I want, for me, I believe I would thrive with agents who are more adept to a corporate ethos. In this fashion, I could build the Davison brokerage my way. Institute my processes. Create customer service benefits and make promises to the public that I believe I could keep.
Granted my agents might require a different set of incentives to motivate them and I might have to work even harder to bring in business than I would if I had a stable of agents who do whatever they want, when they want, how they want.
This is a big industry. There’s room for all kinds. Just because the bar is set really low, that does not stop anyone with a MBA from becoming an agent. If where For me, I’d sooner start there in building my company and then deduce what what their sales capacity is first before I recruit the female escort turned agent and lay awake all night worrying what her closing gift is. (That by the way is culled from reality).
But I would not ever rule out anyone based on that alone. In other years I’ve employed I’ve experience plenty of heartache from college grads.
But for the record, I am not calling for the industry to raise the bar. They should do it on their own but I do believe everyone has a right to work and get a shot at life in real estate. But I would expect NAR to be a bit more forthcoming or transparent on how they position the “Realtor” because not all Realtors are alike. Taking a test and an oath does not paint everyone as equal.
Great post Marc. I go back and forth on the topic. I mean, the individual is the only one that matters when it comes to raising the bar really. Setting the environment for success is really where it is at and having no tolerance for things that will hinder the process. I think that if there are a few key elements of the current brokerage model that are altered then you will have the best (depending on how you define it) agents banging down your door and your only issue will be “I wish I had desk space for them all”.
Hire them, don’t contract them. If they are tied to your business then they will be concerned with YOUR brokerage rather then Themselves, Inc. I can’t say I would blame them for some of the things that go on since they are contracted employees that can be at another brokerage next week.
Require some level of education – not necessarily a bachelor’s degree – that will help them compete and, more importantly, innovate. An associate’s in entrepreneurship would be fine as could be an honorable discharge as an officer of the military. Great minds and inspiration come from many different places.
Make sure they embrace technology. If they don’t I don’t see how they can remain competitive.
Set the stage and get out of their way. Put a high tech environment in place that will allow them to automate things in the right way and free them up to do what they do best – make matches between buyers and sellers + navigate the situation to a place where both can be happy pulling the trigger on the transaction.
There’s my 2¢ for now. I could talk about this for hours but I would rather do that next time I see you, over scotch perhaps.
-PH
Love this conversation and will take both sides on: What does a college degree provide – it teaches an individual how to learn, ask questions, think outside of the box, integrate with individuals different than themselves and realize the world is bigger than their neighborhood block. Perhaps the specifics of the degree are not as important as the growing and learning that takes place while earning the degree. This provides an agent with an ability to look at the big picture which means they are able to work with different people and personalities looking to accomplish different goals that do not always follow the same path as the last client that walked in the door.
On the other side of the fence, experience speaks volumes in the business and I don’t mean just real estate experience. Personally coming from a background managing restaurants and retail stores and business development in the banking industry, I bring to the table a wealth of understanding and empathy that is often not found in other agents. While I have a degree, I state all the time that I could not have done this job as well in my twenties as I do now – a bit older
. I am able to recognize that buying or selling a home is a transaction only – it is something much more stressful that leads to this transaction whether it is a new child, the loss of a parent, divorce, empty nesters – you know the list. My life experiences have provided me with a great education to know how to do my job, be empathetic but understand that it is not about me – it is about achieving the goals of my clients while minimizing the stress as they probably have enough of that due to the reason they need to buy or sell.
Just my thoughts – a college education is important and a great starting point for someone but it is not everything. Life experience is many times a great indicator of an agent’s success.
Well put Lisa. No doubt, experience rules and in my fantasy brokerage, it would play heavy into my decision on who I’d recruit. One other attribute that might be associated to a degreed individual is discipline. I’m not saying they all have it or that agents without formidable college background don’t. What I am saying is that for me, a disciplined individual would thrive much better in the type of brokerage I’d build than a maverick who does what they want, when they want, and how they want with no regard for the needs of the brokerage – a trait that is pretty widespread in the agent arena. Again, these traits are what makes for a good independent agent. Sometimes. But it wouldn’t work for me.
The bottom line is: I am relatively certain I will never own a brokerage.
Don’t shoot the messenger…but I think the world sometimes views Realtors at about the same level as a used car salesman. Not all, but many consumers do. Why is this? Will raising the standards fix this?
I mean look at how many movies and TV shows portray real-estate agents as less than intelligent self centered snobs. Look at Charlie’s mom on 2.5 Men for example.
It is always a balancing act trying to “raise the bar” and stay profitable. There is pressure from consumers to lower commissions. There is pressure from agents to lower fees and increase splits. It is a delicate balancing act, one that I don’t yet have a handle on.
So I understand and agree with the article. We need to raise the bar. How do we do it? Is the consumer willing to pay a higher commission? Are agents willing to pay higher fees or lower splits? Or does raising the bar not cost more to provide?
Wow! I guess I really missed the point on #RTB. I thought it was about what the industry can do to be more professional after they are licensed, not what we can do to stop people from getting licensed.
I have no college degree. I believe I brought a lot of professionalism to the table, not only be the number of transactions I had, but also in the way I conducted myself during them. I also served on the MLS board and served as President-Elect of the Wisconsin Southwest Board of Realtors.
I look at my father, over 35+ years in the industry, no college degree (did serve in the Vietnam war though) and the level of professionalism that he brought to real estate and the things he did for the community he lived in. By the way – was the #9 ePro Designation in the state of Wisconsin, showing that old dogs can learn new tricks.
Granted “professionalism” is defined by me in these regards, and isn’t professionalism always defined in the eye of the beholder?
As far as TV shows and movies, how Realtors are protrayed, there are WAY more programs showing doctors, lawyers, cops etc in a negative light. It’s always more entertaining and fun to put the spotlight on the negative. Kind of like what we are doing with #RTB, (from my perspective)
So let’s say I get a college degree – Russian Literature – how does that help me become a better real estate professional. It doesn’t!
These are quick fix, lazy, easy answers to say COLLEGE DEGREE, MORE LICENSING HOURS, etc.
If all of us spent less time complaining about lack of professionalism and focused that energy on giving freely to educate at our local level, do you think the industry would be better for it?
If all of us spent less energy trying to raise the bar and instead started reaching down, out and to those around us and raising them up, do you think the industry would be better for it?
If all of us spent less time talking about our industry and what our standards should be, and more time talking about how to better serve clients, asking them what they want, desire and need in a real estate transaction, do you think the industry would be better for it?
I would like to shine the spotlight on
http://twitter.com/AgentApplause
http://www.facebook.com/AgentApplause
for focusing on what is right.
What you focus on matters and grows. Do we really want to focus on what is wrong, or could we shift our focus on to what is right?
I have a college degree . . more than one degree. I don’t think you need a degree to be a Realtor.
@Darin, I feel you have so missed my point.
I was very clear on RTB that I am not a proponent of making a college degree a mandatory requirement to enter real estate. I feel the industry has done a fairly good job of making employment in this industry fair and open to all people from all walks of life.
I am stating however, that if you are required to have a 4-year degree to sell ads to bars on Yelp, there might be a case to be made that raising the educational requirements for Realtors who sell homes to people might go a long way toward improving the impression people have of agents. I believe Barrett touched on that in his comments. People have a low opinion of lawyers but overall people feel lawyers are smart. This impression is unfortunately no the case in real estate. In fact, most people, according to Harris Poll feel agents are the least trustworthy group of people in the work force.
I am of the belief that anything agents or the industry can do to improve up on that impression is worthy of conversation.
As to your question of how can having a degree in Russian Literature help you in real estate, a.llow me to pose to this response – that degree would have required you to undergo rather broad course of study from history to politics to the great works of Russian authors and would have certainly exposed you to more information our people and our world than not taking it. You have also been exposed to a wonderful language that could no doubt benefit someone in real estate career given the constant and ongoing migration of Russian people to the US. Furthermore, as a coach, consultant and writer I would have to imagine that having an MBA in Russian Literature would, in some fashion a level of mystique to your brand and quite possibly enable you to increase your rates solely based on the impression people would have of you by completing that level of schooling.
That’s one answer. But in no way am I saying that by not having it, you still can’t get top dollar and be amazing at what you do.
Finally you ask “If all of us spent less time talking about our industry and what our standards should be, and more time talking about how to better serve clients, asking them what they want, desire and need in a real estate transaction, do you think the industry would be better for it?”
… my response is yes, I certainly do. The industry is suffering because people today will sooner trust a blog post written by some journalist about how bad the market is than NAR who telling everyone now is the right time to buy.
So let me place this back on you – why is it that this industry doesn’t do what you suggested? Why is industry still so insular, so opaque, and not hard assed about better service, better products, better tools, better rules and better everything? A philosophical cynic might say it’s because the industry suffers from a prevailing inability to see the forest through the trees of limited thinking.
Malcolm Forbes once said, “Education’s purpose is to replace an empty mind with an open one.”
I think there is a lot to be said for on the job education as much as I believe there is much to be said for academic education. Having both can only make a person better.
@Teresa, I am surprised that you would disagree with that and denounce a degreed education as being immaterial to an agent repertoire of armaments.
Perhaps it might not make them a better sales person. Or enhance their faxing skills. Or make them a better driver. Or provide them the ability to better discern between a bathroom and a bedroom.
But I would argue that a college education might enhance ones analytical skills. Their compositional skills. Or grant them a more worldly view of marketing advertising and personal branding techniques that allow them to do something other than use dogs in their branding.
Given your skills and talents as a communicator, I would have to think that your academic education had some influence on help shape you into becoming one of the most talked about and read real estate agents in America.
In all, I respect all your opinons and will continue to thank you for participating in this discussion. But I’m not going to ever be convinced that the centers for higher learning don’t offer things that could, in some way, help improve all of us in the things we do.
Hi Marc, and the circle continues…I have a BA in Social Work…do I think it was necessary to be successful in RE? no but the skills were transferable.
My best buyer agent does not have a degree. Best by skills, referrals and that word you hate…leads.
One agent joined my team in November, 4 years in the business at a Big Box, college degree. I asked her today, “what did you learn the last 4 years?” I was kidding and then not kidding…4 years and the questions she asks were IMO things you would have learned your first year.
I think when this discussion comes up we all have people in our mind that we think about when answering.
I agree with T’s comment about why and what brokerage’s do, at least in my experience.
Ok back to bed…with a cold @toddwaller sent me here from his question on FB.
I have a college degree. So what? One shouldn’t need a degree to be a Realtor. To think that one should smacks more of elitism rather than raising the bar.
I am not knocking education. I worked very hard for my own. I wanted it so badly that I worked full time the entire time I was in college as a security guard on the third shift and I know that my education and my continuing education helps me with everything I do, but the very best agent I know and one of the top agents in our market has no degree and is excellent, and ethical. As I recall Bill Gates did not finish college and he did just fine.
I think more education should be required to obtain a real estate license but I don’t think that requiring a four year degree is the answer and I don’t believe it will raise the bar. We will just have a more educated group of agents but “the industry would still be insular, so opaque, and not hard assed about better service, better products, better tools, better rules and better everything”
The only thing that will change it is when consumers stop hiring us or start demanding more. The education requirements for an agent are determined at the state level by the department of commerce. Anyone who is interested in these issues and want to affect change should contact their state representatives and work to get laws passed.
@ Joan
Perhaps its not elitism as much as it might be practical considering the gobs of information agents must consume, analyze and deliberate over especially today when it comes to pricing homes, along with all the things business related issues agents must handle themselves in running their operations, building their personal brands, competing with the internet interlopers, generating leads and marketing their value propositions – things many brokers used to support but now don’t.
If we believe that having a college education can’t hone, teach, and expand one’s skills in these areas… then what’s left of a college education? And if not, then my friends, I wonder then if the desire to compare agents to doctors, lawyers, etc., is all just a bunch of rhetoric.
Think about this: John is a Wall Street Analyst.
His is listing his $4,000,000 home.
Agent Bob, with his 6th grade education, provides you a CMA.
Agent Bill with his GED does so as well.
As does Agent Betty who has a MBA in business with a minor in economics.
All three are different. Are we saying that Betty doesn’t have an edge?
Would this not make a difference to that seller who might be here as whose CMA you might better trust?
Marc – now you are onto how it all works. Betty may just get that listing and if Bob and Bill want to compete with her they may decide to get some more education, or of course they could decide to work with the millions of consumers who have the same education level that they do. It all comes down to making money. That is our incentive and we will raise the bar ourselves and all get MBA’s if we need them to stay competitive. It is very likely that is Bob and Bill can sell themselves they will find some business.
Hi Teresa,
This is all well and good, but then let’s not pretend consumers are going to view real estate agents as professionals.
Consumers judge an industry by its lowest common denominator Bobs and Bills not its highest.
IMO all of our clients deserve a Betty. ESPECIALLY the people whose education level is low. The industry must want this for our clients.
This is why our discussion is also a moral issue.
Agreed. And you know, as it all pans out, Bob and Bill might even get more business than Betty. But when asked what kind of brokerage I would build – my response would be “it would be small, have 10 Betty’s and that would be my thing. My differentiator. The one element that I could build cache around and sell to my community.
Perhaps, Bill and Bob and all the other local brokerages filled with Bobs and Bills might kick my “elitist” MBA brokerage ass. But I have to think that the marketplace is screaming for something different. So this is my offering.
As for raising the bar, that’s not my cause anyway. This article was a roadmap for what I would do with clues to the types of marketing campaign I would unleash to the community if I did it.
Marc – I just took a picture of my dog and myself on dailybooth and posted to twitter.
Again – it’s in the eye of the beholder. I agree with you on dog marketing, horse marketing and recipe card sending, BUT…BUT it does seem to connect and resonate with a certain audience out there.
By the way – the reason I don’t have a degree, is I was traveling as a sponsored wakeboarder. And I do chalk that experience up to my success in sales, business, consulting. The people I met from different countries, cultures, backgrounds, their stories greatly shaped me.
I was learning about people from people, not out of a book.
Does that make me eligible to be a doctor? No
Does that make me eligible to practice law? Well, a portion of it according to the state licensing laws after some hours spent learning what I can and can’t do.
I agree with Joan about elitism. And I have seen it my entire career. Someone walks in the office with a Master’s degree and was an executive vice-president at some company and takes the entitlement route. The “I’m better and smarter” route.
Meanwhile, the retired farmer or the single mom that was a waitress is out busting their ass, generating business, servicing their clients and making money.
The only thing I have seen that successful Real Estate Agents seem to have in common is tenacity. I have seen former pro hockey players, farmers, school teachers, nurses, waitresses, bartenders, soldiers, mechanics, etc. succeed long-term not just based on financial success but referrals and longevity.
They have tenacity to learn, to find clients, to keep clients, to hold contracts together, to call the lender 20 times in a 24 hour period because the lender doesn’t return phone calls.
I will gladly allow you to put it back on me –
“Why is it that this industry doesn’t do what you suggested?”
Because we are asking the wrong questions. If we ask the wrong questions and get the right answers to those questions we are still not any further ahead.
John G. Miller, the author of “QBQ! the Question behind the Question” tells us “that the QBQ concept is built on the observation that our first reactions are often negative, bringing to mind Incorrect Questions. But if in each moment of decision we can instead discipline our thoughts to look behind those initial questions and ask better one, QBQ’s, the questions themselves will lead us to better results.
In my opinion this is not a NAR issue, Federal issue, or even a State issue. This is an issue at your local level with your local board. Real change starts at home, starts small and starts with a few.
RE Bar Camps seem to be in fashion as of late. I would make the challenge to everyone that wants to Raise the Bar, do a Raise The Bar Camp at your local level. Talk about professionalism, client service, client fulfillment, etiquette with each other, with your clients.
I already hear it “YEAH BUT DARIN, the people that need want show!” Maybe. Maybe Not. Did everyone show up for the first RE Bar Camp in your area?
Change, real change is not immediate. It is not solved by a new law or new policy.
My opinion, stop trying to raise the bar…start trying to raise each other up.
“Does that make me eligible to practice law? Well, a portion of it according to the state licensing laws after some hours spent learning what I can and can’t do.”
Uh, no. Agents cannot practice law in WA State.
Unless you happen to be a licensed attorney as well as an agent.
http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/realestate/lawsrules.html
Darrin – you wrote “Again – it’s in the eye of the beholder. I agree with you on dog marketing, horse marketing and recipe card sending, BUT…BUT it does seem to connect and resonate with a certain audience out there.”
I ask – how do you know? I ran a survey several years ago and polled 1827 people across 3 age categories across three topics that included agent marketing. Respondents were asked to rate components between a 1-3.
1. Negatively influenced my decision
2. No bearing on my decision
3. Positively influenced my decision.
Across 3 age categories, less than 2% of respondents rated agents posing with pets a 3.
A staggering rate of over 80% rated it 1.
The rest a 2.
I shared this content with CAR soon after compiling it.
Furthermore other items like Agent Designations, Bio’s and a few other things also received similar feedback. Was very eye opening.
Speaking of designations: While the consensus here appears to not favor a degree, I wonder how many of you possess designations and I wonder if these aren’t substitues for academic accomplishments and a degree?
[...] Davison on the 1000 Watt blog recently wrote an article entitled “A pulse, a passing grade and a business card: raising the bar on real estate agent qualifica…imploring brokerages to raise their hiring [...]
“I wonder how many of you possess designations and I wonder if these aren’t substitues for academic accomplishments and a degree?”
Seen the curriculum of most of the designation programs? They are a joke (for the most part). The *vast* majority of the public has no idea what the alphabet soup after some agents names means. And I suspect if they were to find out that many designations are nothing more than a money making machine for the organizations that run them, they’d think even less of them.
“Continuing education” for license renewal is pretty much ridiculous too. I had to renew my license this month. I took three classes on-line (for a total of nine hours of CE credit).
Want to know how long it took me to complete that 9 hours of credit and get my certificates?
50 minutes.
Ask me what I learned in those 50 minutes.
Hint: nothing.
My response about designations
http://twitter.com/darinpersinger/status/9600064989
beyond that I won’t comment as I’ve not been on the frontline doing sales since 2002.
I would agree with Jay’s observation and I have been vocal to the agents I have been the broker, manager or coach with the same perspective.
For example, “e-Pro”…
“e-PRO® Certification is NAR’s online training program to certify real estate professionals as Internet Professionals”
Internet professionals? Here’s the course outline:
“The four areas of focus in the e-PRO® Certification course are:
* Getting Connected – Getting connected is more than going online, it is about creating an Internet Presence. Join the Community and get “immersed” in the process.
* E-mail, a new way to communicate and a new way to market – Master your e-mail software, using it as a tool to communicate before, during, and after the transaction. Learn great risk reduction and marketing techniques.
* World Wide Web – Learn the obvious and the subtle advantages a web-marketing plan can have. Create your own Internet Listing Presentation content. Use the WWW to publish information valuable to your prospects as well as your clients. Do your homework before you “buy” a web site or pay for an “exclusive territory”. Do search engines help? What is working for real estate professionals on the web? Should you create a Blog?
* Tying it all together – Bring the aspects of ancillary technology such as PDAs, Smart Phones, Digital Cameras, Virtual Tours, MLS systems to the attention of the e-PRO®. Looking at the competition and putting together the plan to put the concepts of e-PRO® into your business. Create your Personal Technology Plan of Action and position yourself for the future. Become an active member of the e-PRO® graduate community and the growing list of benefits which that will bring.”
Read that carefully… “E-mail, a new way to communicate and a new way to market”, “Do search engines help?”
Puhlease.
But wait, there’s more….
“Customers have confidence that e-PRO® graduates are savvy about the Internet and that they take the Internet empowered consumer seriously and can meet their online needs.”
All this goodness for only $359.
Whoa there Jay!
Like I stated above my Father got that ePro designation – I want to say in 2001 maybe it was 2002. But it was very valuable for him at that time on learning to navigate the web. And he has continued to be pretty web savvy, he is on facebook and twitter etc.
Maybe you are right, and it could be updated a bit though from 10 years ago.
Jay…you’d be surprised at how many agents are at that level technology-wise. I would guess, nationwide, slightly less than a simple majority.
My 12 and 16 year old daughters surpass the majority of that curriculum with no formal training needed.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all Jillayne. I work with agents every single day…
This sort of training has its place, it’s necessary for many.
But calling “graduates” of e-Pro “Internet Professionals” and saying it indicates they are “savvy about the Internet” and can meet their clients “online needs” is ludicrous.