Recently, I found myself backstage at a Black Eyed Peas concert courtesy of my best bud, who handles the band. A chair on the side of the stage was offered to me, a few feet away from the action. Below, a tent filled with food was at my disposal.
My friend is very influential in the music business. As a result, I got hooked up. But at no point did his influence really rub off on me.
Influence matters
Last Sunday, my inbox was deluged with new Twitter followers. It continued all weekend. In torrents.
I could have shut the emails off but between spam flotsam and porn jetsam I like keeping track of my account as I regularly remove or block the unsavory.
On Tuesday, I learned Stefan Swanepoel released a list of the “most influential real estate people on Twitter.” I was on that list.
Obviously, Stefan has some influence. He persuaded hundreds of people to take action and follow me. But is that as influential as it gets? Can he influence them to read our blog? Hire us?
I also wondered why, exactly, these agents chose to follow us. Stefan claimed we’re influential. In what way? Under what context or circumstance?
This got me thinking about the various Twitter strategies offered to agents and the crowds of people they’re coached to follow, tweet to and ultimately try to exert their own influence upon.
Finally, I wondered what if any effects there are when 400+ seemingly un-influential people follow me for no reason but never engage me.
I decided to find out. I made two phone calls as soon as I was able to locate an AT&T signal.
Call #1
I spoke to Stefan regarding his list. It was put together as a takeaway during a live presentation for agents and brokers who don’t know where or how to get started. His list offered attendees a starting point. 100 people to follow.
There was no strategy behind it. No guidelines. No advice on what to do once they hit the follow button in order to get these influential individuals to follow them back. Or how become an influencer themselves.
I asked Stefan what makes the folks on the list influential. He offered me his criteria:
- Quality of posts
- Quantity of posts
- Number of influential people they follow
- Number of influential people who follow them
Nothing scientific. These are things he values. I don’t disagree.
A few days later Dustin published his own list of influential people. This list was half the size and ranked by influence based on an API he wrote.
Call #2
Joe Fernandez is a friend of mine. He is also the founder of Klout, a service that measures influence across the social web. We talked about influence, Twitter strategy, popularity and what it means in the grand scheme. I sent him Stefan’s list and asked if he could run all the names through Klout.
I found the results incredibly confusing. At first glance you notice that the number of followers a person has does not directly correlate to how influential they are within the greater context of Twitter. Nor does their volume of Tweets. In fact, some on the list with many followers and many posts ranked much lower than others with less of each.
So I asked Joe to explain his assessment of influence. Here’s what he had to say:
MD: Joe, give me the elevator pitch on Klout to lay groundwork for this discussion.
JF: Sure. There are people who possess great influence. They can use it wisely and can make things happen. The same holds true in social media. Klout measures that influence for each person across multiple topics.
MD: How do you do that?
JF: We use a metric we call “True Reach” which represents the number of followers that care about your tweets. We look at how influential those people who care about you are and then we normalize that data across all of the people on Twitter to come up with a 1-100 “Klout Score” representing overall influence.
MD: What do you mean by “care?”
JF: “Care” is defined by actions followers take, such as retweeting or engaging you in conversation on your post. We’re tracking over 3 million people now across Twitter and measuring “care” across 25 different variables.
MD: In other words, Oprah, Obama and Bono follow me but never react to my posts. That’s an example of not caring.
JF: Right. But if they take action on your post, and their followers take action on their action of your post thus creates a domino effect, Klout translates that as influence.
MD: This explains why some with high follower counts have low scores?
JF: Yes. A large number of followers that are not engaged does not make one influential. Influence is the ability to drive action. People with huge follower numbers but have a low Klout Score aren’t driving actions.
MD: What is the value in amassing social influence?
JF: We’re talking about social capital. Your ability to influence others has currency. Companies are no longer looking at customers and determining their lifetime value based on the volume of stuff they’re going to buy. Companies now think about the “network value” of each customer – their connections, followers, friends and the influence and ability they have to drive others either towards or away from their brand.
MD: Can influence be created?
JF: Sure. In the past it was always about the high school quarterback being cooler than the chemistry class whiz kid or the rich guy being treated better than regular folks and that’s the way it is. Through social media anyone can effectively build and engage an audience.
MD: Why is measuring and amassing influence important for real estate people?
JF: 96% of Gen-Y uses social media. They’re real estate’s next customer. What they value, how they search and how they decide will be guided on their platforms of choice and through the counsel of others across social media. Influence matters. An agent will one day matter to those consumers who themselves have built up social influence.
MD: What’s an average Klout Score?
JF: 15.
MD: Really? That seems awfully low.
JF: We’ve seen people with 2,000 followers who Tweet all the time but have a Klout Score of 3. Some of the people on both lists you referenced have scores that rank low. Some don’t even rank yet.
MD: But yet they’re considered influential.
JF: Well here’s the thing – all told, influence is still relative and personal. A person with a score of 3 could be considered very influential to one person – Stefan or Dustin in this situation. In that context, that’s all that matters. Klout does not attempt to detract from that reality at all. We measure some things, but not everything.
MD: What would be an unnaturally high score?
JF: 60 and above is bordering on influential royalty. One person on Stefan’s list scored an 80. That is unusually high.
MD: Any advice for real estate Twitter users?
JF: Don’t waste money buying followers (which I can prove a few people on that list did). Don’t waste time following people just so they will follow you back. Don’t be noisy with your tweets. Create saved searches (on Tweetdeck) for your market area so that when other people talk about it you can jump in the conversation and provide useful answers to their questions. Tweet like you’re an expert on your community and other people searching will inevitably find you. Engage in real discussion, not just @ message your followers one by one to tell them “good morning.” Also, consider who you follow. We notice that many real estate agents are following other real estate agents and that’s their entire strategy. They need to reach outside their category and create reactions across a wide band of topics. Become the person people turn to when they have a question and you will be truly influential.
MD: Last question: The 400+ people that followed me in two days. Did that decrease my Klout Score or diminish my influence?
JF: No. But they did little to increase your influence. Here’s your challenge: Research who these people are and adjust your Twitter strategy to engage a portion of them. This will increase your score.
MD: Great. Just what I need – homework.
JF: You asked.
Theory of influential relativity
While Klout measures social influence across 25 different variables, it missed at least two: Stefan and Dustin’s variables. And they matter too.
While there is no perfectly constructed instrument to measure influence, it is clear that attending to a sound methodology and strategy regarding who you follow, what you say, how often you say it, and how much value to bring to multiple communities is the clearest path toward building influence.
And however you measure influence, that just makes sense.
Here are the Klout Scores for everyone on Stefan’s list:
- Davison
Twitter: 1000wattmarc
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Not depressing, it actually makes sense. Few people would just up and do business with somebody they met or noticed on social networking sites without doing more research. It is more likely that they will find an agent through a Google search and a really good site.
I do post on Twitter, not that often and just because, and enjoy myself on Facebook without the expectation of driving business from it. Facebook does keep me out in front of my local community, Twitter isn’t quite as successful at that. My area seems to have adopted FB but not Twitter so much.
I use Sprint, they aren’t great, AT&T sux, Verizon seems to be the best service out this way.
“Thank you for the great post response regarding my confusion. If I were to speak with the most successful agents that I know and then spend half that time with SM, then my time using SM would = 0.”
LOL. Well, then that should clear up any confusion. I know that throws a wrench into the social media sing song emanating from the choir but so be it.
Social media a tool. That’s it. Like sharpshooting. Anyone can pick up a gun and fire but not everyone, in fact most, couldn’t hit a target 50 feet away without practice. But to hit a bulls eye from 300 feet out – only a handful can do it. That’s social media.
In skilled hands of the few, it’s magic.
l
You can Twitter all day, Facebook all night. But unless you have a sound strategy in place, you will find yourself in the same position many others are – unproductive and exchanging mindless banter instead of selling houses.
So yeah, I am not euphoric about this stuff. I don’t buy into lists nor do I take terms like “influence” lightly. I don’t believe this is good for our industry or the people who are being influenced to do things that don’t work by influencers.
That said, there are plenty of great examples of how to do SM right and get the most out of it. As long as you really understand what “the most” means. This way your expectations are set and met so you aren’t placing more time into that you need too.
A little late to the conversation here (was working all day and a bit too busy for social media fun!), but I just read through all the comments in this thread and there’s some great stuff.
Of course a lot of the advice feels pretty common sense (focus on making money, don’t blindly follow people because they are on a list, focus on your community, etc.), but sometimes a conversation like this can be so helpful as it gives us all a chance to reiterate the obvious!
In an amusing aside… Someone reminded me that you, Marc, were one of the original 10 real estate people I choose to feed into the algorithm. This means that you actually ended up had an outsized impact on the results of my list.
[...] Original post: Measuring influence on Twitter: Wh… [...]
Interesting post. Makes you think of your social media strategy. When I post on Twitter now, I’m wondering what the purpose is of the post. Is the post helping my influence?
[...] Measuring influence on Twitter: Who “cares?” – Marc Davidson does a great interview with Klout to determine what exactly Twitter influence [...]
It would appear that there are a whole bunch of ways to view influence, even in a sub-niche like our real estate world. Thanks for the Klout version, have to say though that Dustin’s list was pretty solid for the people I personally view as influencers.
I like Laurie and Teresa’s responses.
Social media has allowed us to spend even more time with other real estate people. We can take our war stories, successes, and whining outside the office and share them with the RE.net. It would really be sweet if we could have cyber-luncheons.
BUT, even though I have lots of friends in RE social media, I would much rather have influence (def: a power to affect persons or events especially power based on prestige) in my community and what happens here, and on those who are already my clients or might do business with me in the future.
Marc, thanks for this post. I hope the 35,000+ new followers generated by Stefan’s lists read it.
I agree with you, Joe. It would be a shame to have a list generate so many followers and those followers then do nothing with the knowledge (influential Realtors) they now have at hand. What a complete waste of a follow.
Mark, you are absolutely correct. I don’t have the skills to be a SM success story, much like I don’t have the skills to shoot a bulls eye with a bow and arrow. I do have a fantastic skill set in sales, marketing, dealing with people, converting leads and closing deals. I’m a people person. Plain and simple. My husband made a good point last night. He said “what is the point of using the social media as a way to generate business when the best asset you have at your disposal is your personality?” I thought, that’s dead on. I get business because people like me and trust me, very difficult to create that bond over the internet.
I think I have come to some good conclusions as to how I want to utilize twitter, facebook, etc. And, to be quite frank, it is a heavy load lifted off my shoulders. I don’t have all dang day to sit at my computer “tweeting”.
Thanks so much to everyone for their wonderful responses and all the follows. I’m really looking forward to learning more from all of you.
Regards,
Danelle
[...] lists were published, Marc Davidson over at http://www.1000wattconsulting.com/blog wrote a post titled Measuring influence on Twitter: Who “cares?” generating a large number of comments and discussion including a rather interesting offshoot of [...]
This reminds me of high school. I liked high school. I was popular. I had a Mustang GT 5.0.
I rocked it.
Is this an off-topic comment?
Kevin, perhaps the most on-topic comment of all. Thanks.
I have to say this has to be one of the best articles I’ve read in awhile. I’m not a big twitter fan, and it amazes me when I see someone with 30,000+ followers. And it’s true, if you don’t have any influence then what’s the point.
Always something new around the corner, how do these “new” features effect the future. Today, Twitter is “who knows”, tomorrow, it’s the a BIG deal?
Twitter Lists Inside Twitter – coming soon > http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/twitter_groups_and_lists.php
I consider myself a social media connoisseur. I enjoy it. It gives me an artistic outlet for my ideas and knowledge. Has it gotten me clients…the jury is still out.
What I can tell you is this…in the area of the country where I live, the most successful agents are not into social networking and media.
The top “social networking” agents are some of the least successful. For example, on one particular social networking site I have a score of about 7k and I sell real-estate at a higher lever than most in the area. The top scoring agent in my area on that site has a score of 3 times mine, but they sell very little.
Yes there are many reasons for this and I understand the content and strategy has a huge impact on this success, but the raw fact is social media usage does not translate into agent success everywhere.
As Realtor.com likes to say “every market is different”.
As Realtor.com likes to say:
*POPUP* See All Three Credit Scores. Pay $0! Click For FREE Credit Scores! FreeScore.com
Not my favorite source of sage advice for anything.
Ian you have a point. Twitter, realtor.com etc are all just tools. used, miss-used and abused (by the TOOL & the carpenter) like many other things in a free society.
Sounds like influence is the key. I like Swanepol’s clear measurements.
Aloha,
Keahi
I’ve got to admit, I don’t twitter and I’m still on the fence with the whole idea.
to me, it made more sense for the distribution of emergency information, which is where it originally came from.
But hey, what the h do I know?
Rob
@Atlanta, Twitter can be whatever you want it to be. For many, it’s a place to inform others about what you are doing. Like getting on a plane. Or having a fun day and clapping your hands.
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with that. Some people have a need to inform others about their daily activities and having a platform to do that is a benefit to them.
Granted, it might not be very sophisticated or coincide with the strategies employed by others who use Twitter to broadcast brand enhancing missives such as beneficial information about their products and services that their customers can take advantage of. Or use as a marketing device as The Nines Hotel in Portland does which plays into a very interesting aspect of how companies use Twitter to tap into WOM marketing. In other words, by monitoring its guests and determining who is influential in social media, the hotel connects with certain guests through Twitter offering them enhancements to their stay in hopes that these influential people will then broadcast the benefits they receive to others on Twitter.
Essentially it using customers to become brand evangelists. At no discernible cost to the company.
So agents have some choices here. They can choose to issue sound bytes of meaningless content, which could eventually make them popular enough to be considered a social media expert and hired by the NAR to to speak at their conventions and teach other agents to how to do the same. Or you can use it a fined tuned instrument to insert yourself into your local marketplace and participate in dialogue and/or provide your local audience well-placed information, offerings and conversation courtesy of your brokerage.
An example of the latter would be realized by followed @austinjava – a local coffee house in Austin that distributes well placed, meaningful Tweets to locals often resulting in bringing people together in beneficial ways.
Choices.
There are many ways to play the Twitter game.
Pick one and go with it.
@Marc –
Funny you should mention Austin Java’s twitter presence, as it was started by an exec of a very prominent indy RE house here in town.
Marc:
I can guarantee you that your reply contains the best set of “reasons” for twitter that I have seen to date.
The ones all the RE agents are regularily making are serious stretches at best, and their time could be much better spent doing other things more on task.
I completely get the fun-toy aspect of the technology. I just don’t need another time consuming toy at the moment. But I understand that part of the draw and popularity.
And now, with your reply, I’m understanding some of the advanced uses, if you will.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m agnostic on it. Hell, some day I may be all over it. I just need to see how I could leverage it for my business. It’s just funny seeing all the ridiculous claims some make about it.
Out to dinner. I’ve RSS’d your blog, it looks great.
Thanks,
Rob
@Ian. LOL. But not so funny really that I would know about them. I am doing all I can to find the best examples of Twitter to help my clients and readers gain a sense of how this stuff is being used to generate business and build brand – things that seem to be a bit lost on the rank and file agent.
@Atlanta, glad I can give you some insight. Feel free to keep asking questions. That’s what this is about. To try and get balanced advice as we see it. We, I don’t know everything. I am not an expert by any means. Just someone on a constant quest for answers. Like you and your peers.
Marc,
I think you put all this into perspective with:
“They can choose to issue sound bytes of meaningless content, which could eventually make them popular enough to be considered a social media expert and hired by the NAR to to speak at their conventions and teach other agents to how to do the same.”
I am pretty tired of those you have described, defining social media for our industry. We know who they are. As I have mentioned before, real estate agents are looking for the magic bullet. It doesn’t matter how much it costs, as long as some guru tells us it will make us money. We don’t want to take the personal time to engage; we just want the magic pill that will make the result happen and skip the work and engagement part.
For me social media has been a years long process of building relationships, networking, teaching, sharing, and engaging with the public, with clients and with other real estate people. It’s something you have to DO, not something you can doze through a class or skim through a book and “get”.
Joe Spake you are my hero. People just don’t get that this takes time and effort. You can’t open an account an expect to see ROI the very next day. I’ve been doing this as my job for a year and a half and still feel behind the eight ball sometimes. I just wish there were more agents like yourself that understand that is takes “engagement” and not a magic pill.
Thanks Joe. Yeah, it’s starting to feel like this social media thing has become a fast track to a quick buck and a shot at the lecture and conference circuit for lots of people who have no real qualifications and no book of real estate business.
This is nothing new. Historically, this industry has a legacy of bestowing expertise on anyone who sounds like they know what they are talking about.
Imagine trying to pawn oneself off as a record producer after mixing a few homespun tracks of their own music on Garageband.
Imagine claiming to be surgeon after taking a few splinters out of your kids toes
That’s what we have going on in this industry now. I would suggest you read this post – http://www.whatsnextblog.com/archives/2009/05/how_to_pick_your_social_media_guru.asp – It was not written for real estate. But trust that a whole cottage industry of social media guru’s are popping up everywhere, in all industries and it’s no laughing matter.
Agents are in dire need of sound advice and real qualified educators. I appeal to every association in this industry to take a step back and evaluate who exactly you have hired to enter into your members world and educate, train and coach. When you think of it as social media well it’s doesn’t seem all that serious. But if you think of it as what it is in the world of business this is pure and simple targeted marketing, communication, customer service and branding. In a big way.
Possessing a Power Point and giving a keynote at a Barcamp is not enough of a credential to teach social media on a business level. Perhaps on a pure social level. But then again, my 13 year old who posts videos on YouTube and manages a fairly comprehensive Facebook page with his friends figured this all out on his own and would happy to come in and speak to anyone for free. Well as long as you pay for travel and peanut butter and jelly lunch.
This is not a sweeping indictment of everyone. There are some quality folks out there doing right. But there are far more who can’t because they themselves never built a company from the ground up using social media. And they are making it all very confusing for agents by making this sound easier than it is and thinking everyone can do this.
As Brian said from the stage in Long Island at MLSLI yesterday – Running social media to build your business is hard. It takes skill. Talent. Passion. Desire. And commitment. This is if you want ROI. If you want business.
If not, then don’t worry. Just do whatever you want and have fun.
Just for the record, I am happy with where I am with SM. I am doing some SM presentations to realestate and business people, and in those courses I try to emphasize Engagement and Community and de-emphisize the almighty ROI.
This stuff is about the Process, and we are Results oriented people.
Oh, and one more thing: my ego has never been bruised by not being included on anyone’s list.
Now I am going out for some IRL guitar playing and singing with my friends.
Good conversation everyone.
For me, it’s about picking my battles. I decided a few years ago that ALL my clients would come from the web, specifically my web site via IDX registration (and any other registration I could dream up)(not yet implemented) and this goal has received 100% of my focus.
Starting with AdWords, because you have to with a new site, and now transitioning to SEO and pursuing organic traffic.
At this point, I’m genuinely not interested in tiny trickles of “leads” that I “might” be able to obtain from social media of any type.
In my market, there are literally hundreds of internet leads up for grabs every day. I’m currently pulling them in at about 100-150 per month and this is just a scratch of the surface.
So while I think social media is mildly interesting and I have a tiny feeling that I may be getting left behind, it’s just not my focus.
Some would say that in the future everything will be social media (they cant explain how) and if I don’t target this now, I will be hosed down the road.
I say that due to the fundamental nature of the web, search will always be king. Let’s say I need a old PDF manual for some old widget. I could tweet, or face book search, or whatever and never find it. Or I could go to Google and find it in 25 seconds.
RM
My goodness, what a snowstorm in an ice bucket!
Don’t try and place one label on Twitter or place it in only one box. Twitter is and can be different things to different people and some pundits should stop being so damn critical about what someone else does or doesn’t do with Twitter.
• For those who wish for it to be a toy – enjoy.
• For those who wish to discover new relationships – friend away.
• For those who wish to use it strategically to seek sales – business ahead.
To each his own – it doesn’t matter.
And regarding followers:
If you only want a small circle of close friends, or a larger size of quality acquaintances or a huge base of followers, that’s fine too. There is no right or wrong here.
And regarding influencers, or interesting people or lists:
So what? If it serves your purpose, use it, if it doesn’t, ignore it. If you want to be on it, get nominated or enhance your profile so that you are noticed. It’s just a list. It doesn’t make you any better, worse or different.
Use Twitter (or any other Social Media Network for that matter) for the purpose that you wish. Network with like-minded people, converse, share, add value and lets all evolve as this new and very exciting medium evolves as well.
Here’s to the continued growth of the Web, Blogging & Social Media!!
Stefan Swanepoel
Author: Swanepoel TRENDS Report
and new Swanepoel SOCIAL MEDIA Report
[...] Measuring influence on Twitter: Who “cares?” by Marc Davison at 1000Watt Consulting [...]
For me the big questions are: “How many clients can you actually get from the time you spend on twitter? Are they good clients? Is it worth the time ie. time vs. comission? I don’t know, I guess time will tell. Those of you who have all the technical background certainly are way ahead of many of us.
@Jill
These are all good questions – one’s that I have been asking myself. Here would be my answer to you.
“How many clients can you actually get from the time you spend on twitter?
MD: If you approach Twitter as a client acquisition tool, you will be sorely disappointed in the # of clients you get. Twitter is, in its most basic terms, a place to pass simple missives back and forth between friends. Not to generate leads. However, if your missives are filled with particularly interesting sound bytes, and/or you engage others locally in their conversations, there does exist a realm of possibility that due to your insights, offerings and posts on Twitter, someone might reach out to you for services.
“Are they good clients?”
MD: Possibly yes. Far better I might imagine than what lead forms on a website produced.
“Is it worth the time ie. time vs. commission?”
MD: Yes. Connecting with people, giving out information about the market, connecting online is worth the time provided you appropriate segments of time that you categorize as social media time.
“Those of you who have all the technical background certainly are way ahead of many of us.”
MD: Not true. In fact, those with technical backgrounds tend to confuse things rather than clarify them. Social Media – Twitter – is requires no technical ability whatsoever. What it does require is social skills, intuition, a sense of what people react and respond to, a desire to share what you know with others, and a passion for online conversation.
Thanks for reading and contributing to the discussion.
@ Stefan – I concur. The point you make quite well boils down to this in my mind: As long as you go into this thing with a clear sense of why you doing it and stabilize your expectation of what those efforts may or may not produce, your time spent on it, with it and from it will be rewarding.
“Thanks Joe. Yeah, it’s starting to feel like this social media thing has become a fast track to a quick buck and a shot at the lecture and conference circuit for lots of people who have no real qualifications and no book of real estate business.”
AMEN!
Shouldn’t the real question be “Who is your customer? Knowing who your customer is, what they want, what they use to find what they want, a more important use of one’s time.
Understanding one’s “customer” is the first step to understanding where you need to go to find them. If your “customer” is primarily retired empty nesters and they are all using Twitter as part of their “social” life, then use it. But if your target market (customer) is not, is this the best use of your time?
Do what get’s you the best ROI for YOUR target and don’t worry what everyone else says.
I use Twitter as a glorified “My News Feed” on my website where I provide the feed. Interestingly enough, my feed, or Twitter has been picked up (followed) by our biggest local newspaper (online and print) and all my feeds get rebroadcast (retweet)in print and on their website.
Marc, obviously you have touched plenty of twitter nerves here, and spawned some interesting conversation. This is a good indication of how important Twitter has become as a communications and networking tool.
Whether you are in the “I am sitting on the patio” school of twitter users or use twitter for more advanced communications, Twitter is an important factor in the fabric of our lives. We are now the web 2.0 society, and there is no turning back.
@Joe
This illustrates the idea of what you give you get. In other words, if an agent is looking to use something like Twitter to amass influence in hopes of generating leads, hitting nerves, stirring the pot, generating pools of conversation that many are drawn too might be a better tactic than burping out non sequiturs. Conversely, if one is not looking to do anything other than inform others of what they are doing at the moment, that is perfectly fine too but it might not deliver the pot of gold many of the newly born social media experts are telling them it will.
[...] is influence on Twitter so important? It’s a question that had industry commentator Marc Davidson perplexed after he was included in a Twitter user list of 100 Influential & Interesting Real Estate [...]
[...] The ensuing debate on Twitter was extensive and intriguing spurred by Marc Davisson. He continued the conversation in his post Measuring Influence on Twitter: Who “Cares?” [...]
[...] Measuring influence on Twitter: Who “cares?” [...]
Its a hard metric to measure. Though the little I have played with the Hoot Suite I am finding that Twitter influence changes completely when you happen to get the right people to RT your messages (and of course they only RT the ones that they themselves find interesting.)
-Tyler
To be honest, I’m trying to get into Twitter….but the more I try, the more I begin to feel like an Ego-Maniac. I know keeping up with the most current segments of on-line marketing is a must, but are we marketing our listings on Twitter, or are we marketing “how great a life we have.” I think Twitter as a medium of exchange will have short legs, but then again, I thought long hair for men was coming back in 2010. What do I know!