Let me paint the scene.
You now get the fact that popping quarters into a slot machine promises better ROI than sending checks to newspapers to buy double truck ads.
You now realize that there’s little difference between the local kids tp-ing your neighbor’s front lawn and your agents leaving flyers with some vaporous service promise you know they can’t keep on local door knobs.
You clearly understand that clubbing a pedestrian over the head and tying them up in your server room might be a cheaper and more effective way to generate leads than your six-figure website filled with forms.
Whew.
I know. It took a while to get here. I’m hip. Just recently, after all these years, I finally developed an appreciation for Ralph Baierlein. We all grow at our own pace.
So now what? You need to build market share. You need to build brand share. You need to grow your customer base. You need to plug into the mainstream and get a piece of the action.
You know about blogging. Twitter. Facebook. Video. You attend events where it seems everyone is talking about this stuff. Now, you understand why they are passionate about it. It actually works.
So as a broker, what do you do?
You do what Scott did.
You get yourself an Erin.
There’s something about Erin
Scott is a long-time friend who I wrote about once before. He’s not a client. He’s a friend. When he cornered me two weeks ago at Connect SF and asked for ten minutes I gave him an hour. There was someone he wanted me to meet.
Erin.
Erin is Scott’s new social media manager. But there is something different about Erin. She’s not a Realtor who blogged for a year or Twitters about how much she loves Twitter and then decided she’s a social media expert who can now run communications for a brokerage.
Erin Robbins is the real deal. Educated. Smart. Savvy. Has degrees up the ying. Experience up the yang. Worked for start ups (Share this, Optimost) and navigated the halls of the corporate world at Cisco. Where she worked social media channels. A fine representative of the Y Generation.
She doesn’t know real estate. She knows people. And how to converse with them. And translate corporate value in an honest, meaningful, playful way.
And my bud Scott, the chairman of a Northern California brokerage, someone who has always been a day early on just about everything, saw an opportunity, scooped her up and gave her a new career.
What does Erin do? She’s part camp counselor, part brand steward, part communications manager, part marketing director, part social butterfly – a portmanteau of job titles, tasks and roles all folded into one.
She is the replacement.
All good things come to an end
Give this a thought. Thousands of people peek into your company every day while…
Your receptionist sits by a lonely doorway cutting and pasting newspaper ads, playing solitaire, and manning phones that don’t ring. I know he’s been there a while. All good things come to an end.
Your marketing person. Can’t really write. Doesn’t get the Web. Thinks branding is all about a logo. And believes that spinning the truth and weaving cliche slogans is still fashionable. I know she’s been loyal. All good things…
Your coach, trainer. They teach all your new agents how to door knock. You know what, stop recruiting new agents. Get the best agents and have them talk to your new Erin.
I could go on but you get my point. You know you need to do social media. You know it can work but like everything else it requires a skilled, creative, savvy person to embody the heart and soul of your brand.
While all good things come to an end, they create an opportunity for some new great things to begin.
- Davison
Twitter:@1000wattmarc
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Freaking...
I felt like a stalker. I kept seeing her; sitting behind me, in front of me, beside me in meetings across San Francisco; REBCSF and Inman. Finally, I walked up to her and asked her who exactly she was. I said I was fascinated with her fastidious clicking away on her laptop in the sessions while at the same time engaging in the discussions, almost as if she had two heads, two minds. Almost…but hardly, you’d know what I mean if you have met her. Scott’s and his brokerage scored on this hire. Spot on, Marc. And shame on you for uncovering her; there’s going to be a feeding frenzy! Check her out @texasgirlerin
Nice article on the future. I guess it’s not sooner or later it’s sooner or you’re a gonner.
Cheers + Thanks
I know of whom you speak.
Always forward looking, Scott is a CEO to model.
We’d all do good just to follow him around and mimic his actions. His endorsement of an ERIN in a company creates a new business essential.
Once again…”Men with insight, -Men in granite”.
The old ways of doing things are not necessarily the best. Unfortunately, that also means that some people and their ideas are just not valuable anymore, as the times have shifted. Im glad that you were able to combine many ideas into one person and get more success out of it than you had before.
-Tyler
Invest as much in an Erin as you do in bus stop ads and “branded” fridge magnets and you’ll be glad you did. Being known as the brokerage that adapts quickly and gears up accordingly is branding in of itself–the most valuable kind, at that.
Better yet, ditch the bus stop ads and magnets.
Ian:
I can’t think of a time in recent memory where I bought bus benches and magnets. I may have done that back in the 80′s. You may have me confused with Realty World Corporation. I do however appreciate the pointer. Off line is worthless. But if you see any of my benches from the 80′s out there, I suppose it was worth it.
“You know about blogging. Twitter. Facebook. Video. You attend events where it seems everyone is talking about this stuff. Now, you understand why they are passionate about it. It actually works”
Works? what does work mean? It appears that the “register to view listings” method can point to empirical evidence that it works.
Its not “hip” it may be distateful to the 2.0 or social media crowd but it works.
See this thread “If you want to close deals Force registration”
http://www.bloodhoundrealty.com/BloodhoundBlog/?p=9601
We’ve yet to see empirical evidence beyond the anecdote that twitter and facebook “work” such that a significant real estate practice can be built around them.
It works, as in, when does right it:
1. Expand your reach into the online world
2. Increase traffic and retention to your site
3. Create better interaction with your customers
4. Allows you to come across as the expert you claim to be
5. Cultivates intellectual growth and make you smarter and better than you are
Hi Marc
Thanks for the response
In each point you use words that can not be quantified
1.”expand” your reach -by how much?
2. “increase” traffic and retention- by what metric?
3. “better” interaction -as defined by?
4. “come across as an expert”-subjective
5. “cultivates intellectual growth and makes you smarter” -no comment
Its as if you are arguing that facebook and twitter are intrinsically good for business-which may be true, but I’ve yet to see anything other than conclusory arguments that it must be so.
It’s real estate Louis. Words don’t have to be quantified.
FB and Twitter are not Intrinsically good or bad. They’re tools. Good or bad or nothing is in the hands of the user.
But in simple, Sunday night, not really up for a full debate, way… these things have been intrinsically good for Facebook and Twitter’s business.
But there other things that are working as a result. This might be better composed in a follow up post.
Thanks
Agreed words, like art, don’t have to be quantified, indeed quantifying them or attempting to do so, does them a disservice
Business, however, requires quantification.
The best and most satisfying businesses blend art and science.
You are on to something. Look forward to your thoughts in the follow up post
I’m curious, as well. What happened to Scott’s market share after hiring Erin? How many additional closed transactions as a result of her? What was the ROI?
@ Scott
I wasn’t referring to “you” directly, but merely attempting to use the word like “one” or “one’s”, albeit poorly. I didn’t mean to imply that you’ve ever employed any of that style of advertising. I was speaking to the reader out there in general, using your recent success with social media as a call to action, telling them to drop the bus stop ads, etc. I’m from the Bay Area, and I’ve never seen your mug on a bus stop ad. That’s a good thing.
@Marc – If something “works” for me, then I’ve tracked it to increased closed transactions. Forced registration works. Facebook PPC works, if done properly. I’ve never seen twitter “work,” though I am on twitter (primarily to follow SEOs I respect.)
There are so many broad statements made in the RE.net that aren’t backed by numbers. RE Bloggers should point to specific examples and use real numbers to prove their point.
For 2 years, I assumed that open registration produced better leads, and more loyal customers. During this time, I advised a many webmasters that open reg was the way to go, and pointed to the few, but very good leads that came in as a result of my open registration site.
Good friends of mine who track everything convinced me otherwise, and I tested and tracked the alternative. “Good leads” (property info requests, contact requests, and phone calls) actually increased, bounce rate went up by only 3%, the number of registrations exploded, the number of closed transactions and my ROI both increased.
If someone advises me to spend money on specific techniques, it better be quantified. I want to know exactly what I can expect, so that I will know if I’ve implemented properly. I want to know exactly what to expect so that I can predict ROI.
The best advice you can give any agent is to track, track, track, so that they can then analyze and learn what does and doesn’t work.
@Eric, Certainly, you have found one way to measure “works”.
But regarding social media, there are other workable benefits that might not be immediately recognized through typical ROI indicators.
Regarding the RE.net, these are all well intentioned folks who might not qualify their statements and at times are a bit over the top in their euphoria about things, but that fact they are even on your radar is indicative of the “working” that I we ought to consider.
Social Media is a significant brand builder. While standard analytics might not be able to track sales based on these ancillary brand building effort, the managers of these social media sites tend to know if they are working or not.
I can’t speak for Scott in terms how much money he has earned as a result of Erin. Again, only a one-sided metric to support “works”.
Thanks for taking part in the discussion.
I assume that you mean brand awareness as an intangible that can’t be quantified. If so, then I agree with you. There are powerful ways to leverage social media to increase brand awareness, but I think that 99% of the agents attempting to do so are extremely inefficient. For example, spending 10 hours/week on twitter or facebook doesn’t seem to have a great ROI (thought it’s difficult to measure) with respect to brand awareness. Depending on how you value your time, you could have bought quite a # of clicks or impressions for that investment.
While I do agree with you that there are intangibles that we can’t quantify, the bottom line number that I will always look at is ROI. In my opinion, the most valuable aspect of web marketing is that it’s infinitely trackable. I know exactly what I pay for traffic, how many leads come from each source, which leads close, and my conversion rate for each site. I know what my ROI is from every advertising source.
My main point is that we need to back up our claims with hard numbers. How much does Erin cost? What exactly does she do? How many new transactions can we expect as a result of Erin? If I know these numbers, then I would seriously consider the proposition.
As I’ve yet to meet an agent (with measurable traffic) who has tested both forced & open registration and chosen open registration, I would be very interested to meet such a person, and see if their decision was based on ROI or emotion.
I simply assumed that you meant brand awareness. What other intangible benefits can I expect to receive from social media?
I, like most, would love to be able to point to easily quantified data to support my social media cheer-leading (well, addiction), but it’s either not there yet or hasn’t been processed. That said, I think there are things out there that will always be tough to accurately gauge, but are nonetheless important. For instance, the terribly vague concept of “presence”. Let’s say we attempt to evaluate Scott’s ROI using common real estate, business, or even web, metrics (closings generated, clients acquired, opportunity cost, etc.), and this informs whatever our conclusion may be. What if, because of Marc’s using Scott as an example of good 2.0 spending in this post, Scott is invited to be a paid speaker at name-your-big RE Tech conference? What if the path to that invitation is circuitous and hard to fully follow–someone sees the post, emails it to a friend, on to another, and so on. This end result, being a paid speaker, would not have happened without Marc’s post, the genesis of which was Erin’s fabulous work. I’m really just saying that we need to think as holistically as possible when attempting cost/benefit and ROI analyses today. I don’t know that anyone disagrees, so this may well be a straw man.
Looks like we already hit on the above while I was writing it!
It’s all about where you want to spend your money. As a business model, where would you spend your money:
A) Somewhere with quantifiable, positive results.
B) Somewhere that provides intangible, unmeasurable results.
Since option A definitely exists, that’s where I’m spending my money. If people care about closing transactions, they would do well to look for examples of A.
Your example of “what if” seems to be a pretty big stretch to me. The average consumer in Scott’s local market isn’t aware of the RE conferences that everyone in our industry seems to be in love with. If you’re looking to position yourself as “the expert” then I think a decent blogging schedule coupled with Facebok ads & Twitterhawk would be a much more valuable way to attract those types of clients. Just saying…you can measure that, and I would assume that it would be more productive and cheaper than hiring an SMM to hopefully get you a speaking gig at Inman.
One intangible benefit Eric is greater awareness. In other words, to be a good blogger, one must increase the volume of content they read. By reading more, by exposing oneself to information (hopefully good, quality info rather than other uninformed blogs) a persons intellect grows.
I see that as a wonderful benefit. If used properly, the revenue producing ROI you seek is surely attainable.
As for what you seek – pure ROI on everything – I’m hip. But here, somethings we do for pure ROI, others not. Such as giving back the community. Take out Mind Map. A lot of work goes into it. There’s is no direct as a result other than good will and viral recognition. However, the cost to achieve is surmountable. Therefore, “works”, at least in this context is providing value for our readers and marketing ourselves at not cost.
What this offers us, requires no tracking or militant scientific delineation. Its organic and feels right. I tend to include that in my operations.
Regarding the questions you ask about Erin, we might have found a place here where we disagree. There are many positions within a firm where these questions do not directly apply to their job.
But specifically, if Scott happens by here and reads this, perhaps he will offer some insight into his thinking. Personally, I am stoked that his marketing department is no longer stocked with computer illiterate folks that cut and paste ads for newspapers and have no interest in learning how to work the web.
Marc –
My marketing relies 100% on marketing to past clients & marketing for new business online. Print media is measurable, and it provides a negative ROI (in my experience) so I don’t bother with it. Should Scott hire an SMM or should he have fired his old marketing department and gotten some new guys who are web savvy?
Again, my main point is to track and provide numbers. Just because something feels right doesn’t mean that it is – a GREAT example of that is forced vs. open registration.
I wonder, if everything you do must be quantified by analytics cater to pure ROI, what is the measurable benefit of your time spent commenting on this blog?
It’s difficult to measure, but it involves awareness to others that I want to link to me in order to increase my search rankings. I’m also taking “an easy day” as I worked all weekend.
Good answer. It is difficult to measure. But awareness to others is a critical aspect of real estate marketing with tentacles that extend into many different areas, search ranking being one of them and one of those oddly arduous things specifically measure ROI by
I can measure the results of my search marketing, but it’s difficult to quantify exactly how much worth a specific blog comment has. SEO is harder to measure ROI b/c there are so many unknowns involved. Paid search is much easier to quantify. I will tell you that, from my experience, blogging or blog commenting without specific purpose and direction will be very fruitless. Here’s a .ppt presentation I gave on local search at Pubcon: http://www.ericbramlett.com/pubcon-2009-presentation/
Hi All,
This is (the) Erin that has been much referred to in the story and comments following. I’ve only been on board at Realty World for one month, so as of late I can’t attribute any closings to my hiring. What can say is that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting some of the most genuine, attentive and hard-working people in the business who have welcomed me with open arms regardless of brokerage, affiliation, etc.
I’ve started a Twitter handle just for my new role, @realtyworlderin, although @texasgirlerin will certainly be my alter-ego in perpetuity!
I appreciate all the feedback, kind words (Bob Watson – you are truly one of a kind!) and enthusiasm for what I’m certain is the start of a great adventure in social media and real estate.
Best,
Erin
And now, in conjunction with the some of the comments above, many of you now have Realty WorldNCA, Erin Robbins and Scott LeForce on your radar.
The cost to them, nothing.
So what worked here through social media was the introduction of a few cool people to a whole bunch of other cool people.
Score 1 for SM.
Now, what you guys do with that is up to you. What potential ROI can come from that is immaterial to me. But I have to believe that at some point, given all the business minded folks in real estate, you’ll figure that out.
When that happens, we can put closure this episode of “What do you mean by “works”.
Marc –
It’s definitely fun to be involved in real estate social media, but I’m not sure how many deals you’ll close as a result of networking with other agents online. I’ve been actively involved in real estate specific social media circles since 2006 and have received exactly one referral from one of my online friends.
On the other hand, I have closed many deals as a result of purposeful blogging in order to increase my search engine ranking, and through targeted PPC campaigns. I have closed many referrals from agents who found me online, and 10X as many deals from clients who found me the same way.
I can appreciate that social media is “cool,” and shouldn’t be ignored by Realtors. I’m very skeptical of whether or not anyone is making house payments as a result of networking on twitter and facebook all day.
Again, just my experience. If there’s hard data to indicate otherwise, I’m all ears.
One caveat…if the goal is brand awareness, as we discussed, then sure, mark one up for social media. While most of us aren’t large enough to focus on brand awareness (except at the hyperlocal level) it sounds like Erin’s employer is a large enough broker that it’s worthwhile to spend money on a larger scale.
However, I would prefer bloggers/tweeps/etc… to be aware of my brand on a local level, rather than increasing my brand’s mindshare to real estate agents across the US. Twitter and Facebook have great tools to help there – but the best tools aren’t free.
Those who sit and chat all day on Facebook are not part of the general discussion here but I am sure that there are been plenty of documented deals that have taken place between agents who network in social media.
I’m referencing the more academic style of marketing, customer service and branding agendas currently managed either inside or through the well-documented practices of firms outside of real estate such as Six Apart, Kodak, Dell, JetBlue, etc.
Here’s a hard fact – Dell has attributed $3 Mil is direct sales from Twitter. You might think $3 Mil is chump change. But that’s a lot of $499 computers for what is very little cost.
Ponder this: How much hard data did Columbus have when he sailed out to discover the new world? Sometimes, especially when it comes to groundbreaking events social as social media, you need to leave some caution to the wind.
Hard data is great. But so is experimenting. A balance of both is critical.
I manage an ecommerce site, and we leverage twitter very effectively. In my experience, twitterhawk is crucial. So, I don’t disagree with you that twitter can be used to sell a product.
There are major differences between the large corporations you referenced and the small businesses that are real estate brokerages. Because there are big differences, you can’t assume that what works for one will work for another. It’s great to see what the marketing departments at Dell, Kodak, etc… and try to apply that locally, but if you’re going to recognize that the business models aren’t directly applicable, then everything must be tracked so that you can see how well those techniques perform on the local level.
That said….I’m sure that plenty of people have closed deals as a result of networking in social sites online. I used to spend an arguably unhealthy amount of time in SEO & real estate forums bouncing ideas around, and as I said, I was referred once. So…from my experience, it can happen, but I would be very surprised to find anyone who is wealthy because of it.
I agree with you that experimentation is healthy. If you want to experiment, the best way is to try to follow the scientific method as closely as possible. Hypothesize, predict, experiment, evaluate, confirm, and improve.
Hi there Eric,
I just wanted to weigh in and let you know that the focus of my position is not focused solely on the brand awareness of Realty World, but is actually aimed at teaching our agents and brokers to do the very thing that you mention – use social media to become a “hyper-local” expert. I am creating training programs that will be available to our members to help them understand blogging, Facebook, Twitter, and many other social media outlets, so that they, regardless of location, can brand themselves. After all, each realtor is really selling themself, not their logo.
I appreciate your comments, I think it’s good to bring to the forefront of people’s minds that above branding a national brokerage, teaching a people to brand on their own speaks volumes.
In SEO, use the optimized keywords and phrases that you targeted in your initial strategy in the titles and content of your blog and forum posts. You don’t have to overdo it, just let them occur naturally.
I know of whom you speak.
Always forward looking, Scott is a CEO to model.
We'd all do good just to follow him around and mimic his actions. His endorsement of an ERIN in a company creates a new business essential.
Once again…”Men with insight, -Men in granite”.